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#447 Wish for Change. Make Kusama Great Again.

Proposer:
KSM.fun
 
in General
26th Aug '24

OpenGov and treasury is a good thing and we need to use it properly. 

We as a kusama community want to see as much as possible use cases on parachains and as much as possible burning of kusama with core time usage. 

The best way to turn the table and create good vibe around kusama is to incentivise parachains from treasury depends how many KSM coins are on sovereign accounts of that parachains. This is only one metric that can't be abused. 

For examle there are 3 chains on kusama: A, B, C chain. (during period of 28 days)a

A contains on severign account 10K ksm

B contains on severign account 70K ksm

C contains on severign account 20K ksm

So in total 100K KSM bridged from Kusama relay chain to rollups. Each of them will be rewarded proportionally on the sovereign accounts.

10% to A, 70% to B, 20% to C.

KSM for insentivice is from treasury and could be any what KUSAMA open gov will decide. for example

— % from all KSM in treasury.

— % from KSM collected during month,

— % from KSM that suppose to be burned as not spended.

The distribution to parachain/rollups could/should be done automaticly depends how many KSM on sovereign account was each block during the some period.

It could be done via extra pallet that check balances on sovereigns accounts each block and distribute KSM incentives to that accounts proportionally for total KSM during spending period duration.

 

This is the best and the fastest way to drive development activity and real product on kusama.

As open gov we still can try to fund some pallet developments, marketing but at the end of final use case for relay chain native currency is bridging as much as possible KSM to parachain/rollups. 

To not let abuse the system of insentivise and not drive up only LSD via parachain/sovereign account — could be good to just apply some formula to that balance of sovereign parachain account that pull down total share of such LSD parachain use cases.

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Proposal Timed Out

The proposal has been timed out as the decision deposit was not placed in due time
Summary
Timed Out
58.6%Aye
AyeNay
41.4%Nay
Ayes(33)
110.96K KSM
Nays(36)
78.30K KSM
Support
31.20K KSM
Issuance
15.94M KSM
Voting Details
Approval0.00%Threshold0.00%
Support0.00%Threshold0.00%
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Users are saying...
Based on all comments and replies

The text expresses a preference to vote 'Nay' in response to a proposed incentivization mechanism for Kusama's sovereign accounts. The individual believes the mechanism needs refinement, suggesting it should be tied to the duration tokens are held and on-chain activity of associated accounts. The balance thresholds for each parachain would be determined through OpenGov votes and subject to change. However, concerns were raised about potential vulnerabilities this could introduce for Kusama, emphasizing the need for core developers' input and a prior formal discussion before proposal implementation....

The summary suggests that the text expresses a negative vote due to concerns about the proposed incentivization mechanism for sovereign accounts on Kusama. The voter believes that the mechanism, which is based on token balance duration, randomized holding periods, and on-chain activity, could potentially be exploited. They advocate for a discussion among core developers before implementation, as this proposal was not anticipated through formal discourse.

AI-generated from comments

4Comments
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EvoL...oVus
 
 
27th Aug '24

I don't think that's a good metric, different parachains will have very different business models that use capital in different ways, there could be parachains that are more beneficial to the KSM economy that don't care about this metric while others that don't have any utility to the KSM will benefit form this policy as they will be built to incentivize people to hold for the right amount of time. You might end up incentivizing the wrong kind of behavior! perhaps a way to distinguish user's KSM from the parachain's hard earned KSM could help.

e.g. What is better, a "MemeParachain" that collects fees in its own token that tells whales, I'll give you tons of meme-coin rewards if you lock your KSM for a month(potentially lots of KSM in the sovereign account with 0 benefit to the ecosystem)? or a parachain like Kreivo with KSM as native currency, that incentivizes its DAOs to keep their KSM in their own sovereign account(not the para's), this chain might end up collecting considerable amounts of fees in its treasury(and the para's account) from membership sales("prepaid gas") and goods&services payments as it takes a percentage of every payment but still might pale in comparison to the whale collecting meme coins example.

If we were to do something like what you propose I would like to distinguish between a para's own hard-earned KSM in its own treasury from their users' KSM, but it's quite challenging! we can't trust the balances of accounts inside the parachain. A good approximation could be how much of that free balance in the sovereign account the para is willing to lock for a long enough amount of time to get rewards, we already have a system for that, it's called staking 😜 and what you propose can probably be an improvement/extension to the staking system. A parachain can already stake funds with its sovereign account, a few paras do this with liquid staking systems where their users know their funds will not be available for a while, if done arbitrarily users would be pissed if suddenly they can't move their funds. Liquid staking probably doesn't earn the parachain much so it's not great incentive for bringing adoption, to be more aligned with your proposal, I think we would need some kind of "super staking", a way to get better/extra rewards perhaps by locking funds for longer periods of time or under certain conditions that are not attractive to regular users but could make sense for a parachain's KSM treasury, the rewards can come as part of the inflation or from a dedicated pool(the treasury counts), we can also restrict it to specific origins like a parachain's origin, it's relatively easy to setup a 1 user parachain just to get better rewards but at least people would have to be paying coretime while making core more scarce.

As an experiment I don't hate it, I could implement it and propose it via the fellowship as an experimental "extra staking rewards pallet" usable only by parachain origins, should be an interesting experiment :) However in the long run might have undesirable side effects as it encourages parachains to collect and hold KSM in treasuries that wouldn't much different from burner addresses, instead of creating lively circular economies where money moves and is spent on regular basis.

P.S. Revitalizing Kusama had initially the same name of this proposal but community members didn't like its controversial name 😜. Regardless I think that's a better way to make Kusama great again! to have technology that allows projects/businesses get on-boarded to the ecosystem easily with no code or knowledge of Web3, just create an organization and scale it effortlessly.

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Gqrk...Bogy
 
 
27th Aug '24

Thanks for response, and for time that dedicate to write such a long comment.
@EvoLanodoqDsgHb98Ymbu41uXXKfCPDKxeM6dXHyJ2JoVus 
 But I do not feel and do not see that you are very interested in a grow of kusama as a platform for devs.

https://www.subscan.io/account/EvoLanodoqDsgHb98Ymbu41uXXKfCPDKxeM6dXHyJ2JoVus

On your account you berely has only 70 KSM. You lose nothing reacting wrong or even do not react at all at current stage of kusama.

Stop saying "We have a great tech". devs do not chose just because of tech but because of user base or some benefits that was suggested in this Wish of change.

 

How many projects was onboarded to kusama for 2 years? Are you sutisfied with a current situation? 
This Wich for change is only THE one and proper solution for kusama to move. I want to remind you that kusama will be kicked of from top 200 coins list even having such a great tech.

 

Current market and current naratives decides what is the top dapp/ chain by activity should be at the moment. AI, memes, DAOs.

If someone build memechain and it is in vibe of current market and a lot of KSM bridged to parachain then this rollups should recieve as. much as possilbe funding from treasury for beeing in such proper time and UI/UX in current market demand.

Kusama slogan was "Expect Chaos" to have fun and experemet. But how many intrested ideas was really introduced to runtime or it is follow the road of polkadot and always staying in a shadow of polkadot.
I refused to listen to your words very carefully because I do not see a big bet from you on kusama, you have nothing to lose.
I bet a lot on kusama and current stage and direction is not what i want to see. 
Huge batch of funding from treasury should go to insntivise parachain that utilise KSM and bridge them over to introduce different use cases for users. 

And all of this funding of some pallet development, marketing activity and so on were here last 2 years? Do we see a good result? The answer is NO.
I want changes.
Kusama NEEDs changes.

Dm4u...1Xkk
 
 
28th Aug '24
Voted Abstain

 

It's an interesting idea, but it could also be a potential vector for attack on Kusama. It would be good if the core developers had something to say about it.

ltfschoen
 
 
30th Aug '24
(Edited)
Voted Nay

I am going to vote NAY in the interim since I think the incentivisation mechanism needs to be more sophisticated. I am interested in your thoughts on whether such incentives on sovereign accounts should only be associated with their KSM token balance depending on the duration that they are held there that is representative of their vested interest (for example since they are forfeiting staking rewards), where the precise period that they need to hold at least a predefined balance there is randomised (preferably random snapshots rather than requiring the tokens to be locked) so it may not be abused by prediction markets, and based on the on-chain activity of those sovereign accounts and any another accounts that act on their behalf using their proxy permissions, and where the prefined balance thresholds for each parachain are voted in based on an OpenGov votes and are subject to change.

Hw38...c75M
 
 
30th Aug '24
Voted Nay

This proposal should have been anticipated by a formal discussion 1st.

 

NAY.


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This RFP was adapted over several weeks on AAG to turn a treasury proposal in discussion to an RFP with refined scope and oversight.

To apply for the prize pls fill out this form.  


Prize Pool: $43,000
Finder’s Fee: $2,000 **
Supervisors: $5,000

Supervisors (Bounty Curators)

  • Flipchan
  • Byte (Erin)
  • James Slusser

Excess or unused funds will be returned to the treasury by Bounty Curators.

Timeline

Monday, March 17 - AAG Discussion & this forum post! ✅
Monday, March 24 - Single-ref Bounty + Curators ✅
4 Weeks after Bounty Funding - Submission Deadline Thursday
July 31 - Project Completion (Pending Kusama Hub Launch)

Project Scope

Smart Contract Development

  • A Solidity-based smart contract deployed on Kusama Hub
  • ZK enabled for private deposits & withdrawals
  • Compatibility with all Kusama Hub assets

User Interface

  • Browser-based, mobile-ready UI hosted on IPFS
  • Support for: Deposits, Withdrawals, Transfers, XCM Transfers
  • Compatible with popular ecosystem wallets (Nova Wallet, Talisman, Subwallet)

Anti-correlation Attack Mitigations:

  • Fixed deposit amounts (e.g. 1, 10, 100, 1000 units)
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  • Ability to receive assets via XCM from any Kusama-connected parachain and transfer them to Kusama Hub for use in shielded pool.

Open-Source Delivery

  • All code (smart contracts and UI) published under the MIT license
  • Publicly accessible repositories Project updates shared transparently via Polkassembly, Subsquare, or Polkadot Forum from Team with Milestone deliveries
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Milestone 1, Initial Pools & Basic UI:
$16,200 USD
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** re: Finder’s Fee: this payment is set aside to incentivize a broad search for the right implementor. Finder’s Fees are paid out at time of team engagement. Teams that submit themselves can collect their own Finder’s Fee at completion of project.

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Root

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#510 Secure Funds
KSM
30th Mar '25

To prevent potential mismanagement of Youdle DAO treasury funds, we propose temporarily transferring these assets to the Kusama Treasury, which is now the safest option.

Rationale:

The Invarch team, which currently controls the funds, has a history of questionable financial decisions, including the transfer of more than 200K ASTAR from the DAO to a CEX without transparency.

Community members have raised concerns and asked questions about fund management, but the team has not provided clear answers.

To ensure responsible management, these remaining funds (400 KSM) should be safeguarded under Kusama governance.

Next Steps:

The funds will later be returned to Youdle DAO holders through a transparent and verifiable process.

 

We urge the community to support this measure to protect DAO resources.

 

Evidence:

Rug on virtuals

image.png


image.png

 

Polkadot treasury rugs

image.png

 

Youdle DAO rug

Moving DAO funds to a CEX because it's a shared address instead of moving to another on chain address? No answers. 

image.pngimage.png

image.png

Pink rug

Pink distributed by the pink team to invarch was supposed to get distributed to the community

image.png

but instead 2000000 pink were allocated to xcastronaut (invarch founder) wallet

image.png

image.png

Then went to hydration and got sold.

VARCH rug

$VARCH token launched less than 30 days ago. ICO investors are down -96%
image.png


KSM partial rug

Not fully delivered. 

image.png

Tinkernet rug

Tinkernet (kusama parachain) was shutdown. Investors were given 4 VARCH for 1 TINKER. VARCH was later a rug so this converts Tinkernet in a rug. Before shuting down they made an LBP in Osmosis (Cosmos) which also was a rug. 



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